Success Stories
This month's featured success story comes from the Lloyd family from Connecticut. Linda's son Henry had some early health problems, and she admits that she let him develop some bad sleep habits during his first few months. However, by 8 months of age Henry was STILL waking up every two hours!
That's when Linda decided to make some changes, and I think you'll be inspired by what happened next! You can read a transcript of Linda's interview with Dana Obleman, creator of "The Sleep Sense Program," below.
(If you'd rather listen to the interview, click here.)
Dana: Okay so Linda, I was I have a subscription to Shape magazine and one of the favorite parts in there for me is reading about the success stories for people. I would love to hear about how people transform and change their lives for the better. So I thought it would be a great experience to hear from some of the people out there who tried the success program and made some real positive changes in their life.
Linda: I am originally from Connecticut and I just moved back to Connecticut this last couple of weeks. I was living in California, Northern California at the time I worked with your program.
Dana: Okay. And what is your husband's name?
Linda: My husband's name is Fritz.
Dana: Fritz? And what is the baby's name?
Linda: Henry.
Dana: And how old is Henry now?
Linda: He is 16 months. About 16 and a half months actually.
Dana: Okay, great. The world of a toddler.
Linda: I know. It is all new and exciting.
Dana: Isn't it, yea? It is one of the best times and also one of the most challenging times I have found.
Linda: I mean he is such an easy-going baby I know I am really lucky. But I think probably around the corner it is going to get a little bit more challenging. That is what I hear anyway. He is my first so I don't know.
Dana: Right. Right. So when you were pregnant with Henry did you have any expectations or plans about what you were going to do with regards to sleep when he was born?
Linda: No. And you know what was maybe a little bit different for me was that I had him when I was 38 and at the time you know the girls I went to school with and was friends from childhood all had their children earlier, like in their 20s and I was kind of alone in terms of being around people my age that were having kids. So I didn't really have a point of reference. So when I was asking people I knew that had kids it had been so long ago that I didn't really get a lot of good information on what to expect aside from reading books and I just assumed from what everybody said be prepared to be sleep deprived. And I just kind of I did a lot of reading but in terms of sleep I didn't really have any expectations other than I knew I was sleep deprived but I kind of figured it out as I went along.
Dana: Yea I can remember the same thing people telling me, “Oh the first few weeks are hard but usually around the sixth week things start to settle into a nice pattern and you start get some good stretches.” I was just holding out for the six week mark but it kind of came and went. I realize that didn't really help much.
Linda: Exactly. I felt the same way.
Dana: Do you remember around what age Henry was when you started to feel like maybe his sleep was getting a little problematic and you might need to take some action?
Linda: Well I think my expectation of when he would start to sleep through the night was abnormal because a lot of people that I would start talking to and comparing with kids did start having a pattern within a couple of months of birth. And I started having issues with Henry right away, which I ended up finding out about three months old he had severe reflux and food allergies and so Henry was a screaming crying, always needed to be held baby from the beginning. And so -
Dana: Oh, wow.
Linda: I was so much engulfed in trying to heal his gut and his esophagus and getting him comfortable that I didn't expect him to sleep because he never did and I always had to hold him. So it wasn't until he was about eight months old actually where I knew that his reflux had improved to the point where I knew he should be sleeping better like okay this is baloney. Eight months is ridiculous to not be sleeping more than two hours at a time and I was at my wits end and I thought okay I can't use this excuse of him not feeling well anymore for not sleeping. And at that point I did start to buy a couple of books and try to figure it out. And I think I was so sensitive to his crying because he had been in pain for so long and at the beginning I didn't know it and I had kind of all this guilt about that. When he cried I had a really hard time. So when I started reading recommendations about cry it out and Ferber and all this sort of stuff I knew I wouldn't be able to do it. I had tried a couple of different things like no cry sleep solution and just trying to figure things out on my own and it just wasn't working. And it was actually around Christmas I kind of hit my breaking point when I was really starting to fall apart emotionally. It was affecting my marriage.
Dana: I always say that people have to hit rock bottom. You know, like I can remember the night too, I can remember it very clearly in my mind when I said, “That is it. I can't take this another night starting tomorrow I am going to figure out a way to make this better.”
Linda: I was really at the point of desperation and a lot of people didn't understand because they hadn't had a baby with this condition so they didn't understand why I couldn't just let him scream and scream and scream and that is what you had to do and I had to be tough and it was one night where he was screaming and I was crying and my husband and I were on the couch and I was online and I mean I had been doing so much research anyway in terms of his reflux and again trying to find ways to help him sleep. I came across your website and I remember reading it and showing it to my husband and saying it like $45 I will pay anything if something will work and we were kind of skeptical but at that point a lot of what I was reading on your website was making sense and I read your program. Within an hour I devoured it and I think what hit home to me there was some things reading that that made it felt okay. Okay I know he is going to cry a little bit but like you were saying what stuck with me and my husband is you are giving him a gift. He needs the sleep. This baby desperately wants to sleep as much as I do. He hasn't slept well since he was born either. And it was going to take a little bit of tough love but it didn't have to be this drastic horrible thing like what I read about with Ferber and these other methods. And that is when we decided to give it a try. It was actually January 1st it was our New Year’s resolution. The first night that we did it and the first night was really hard I am not going to lie.
Dana: Yea, it is.
Linda: We stayed in the room we didn't go outside the door or anything. He ended up having to do most of it because I couldn't handle it. I was sleep deprived and he was as well so I was emotionally on edge. I think it was actually easier for him then too because he didn't have the kind of attachment to my husband and the nursing attachment to my husband that he does with me. So my husband did a lot of it the first day.
Dana: So when you went in and you started on that first night what were some of the things that, what were some of Henry's props that needed to fix? I am guessing it was doing a lot of holding to sleep?
Linda: The thing is when he first started getting sick and a lot of like the pediatrician I had at first was like oh it is colic, which it wasn't. What everyone recommends is this bouncing and holding and swaying kind of dancing and shushing. I had all these things I was doing. I dropped 50 pounds in no time. And so he was very used to like motion and you know I would do anything to let this baby sleep. So he did have a little bit of that. At that point I didn't have to do quite as much of the swaying and dancing because his reflux had improved. But he did nurse, he nursed to sleep while I was in a rocker. So he did have that motion and the nursing.
Dana: It is really common a lot of babies that have colic or reflux tend to develop strong attachments to motion and/or eating which is always a bit surprising to some moms because if acid is the problem it seems why would you put more food down there which might create more acid but it sort of tries to push it all down. And so -
Linda: Breast milk is actually like what I learned is breast milk especially is sort of an acid neutralizer so some babies find it very soothing. Some reflux babies don't want to eat at all they get really sick or they want to nurse all the time. I had one that wanted to nurse all the time.
Dana: Yea. And it is difficult and I do find that reflux babies I think you were wise to wait until you were confident that it had resolved or was at least under control. They tend to really do I think because the attachment is so strong they tend to be sort of the harder babies when you start to make some steps in a more positive direction in regards to sleep. Most parents find it is a bit more challenging for sure.
Linda: Yea and I was actually surprised. I think that you know I had said I sort of hit my rock bottom and I think it was such a timing thing. Henry was ready too. Literally we expected this to go on for weeks. By night three he was sleeping through the night. It was so much faster than even what your program had said it would be. And it was really only the first night that was difficult. The second night it was maybe a half an hour of him crying and trying to get him down. And after that it was like I remember sitting on the couch with my husband we are looking, we are waiting we always had the monitor on thinking okay we are going to sit down for a minute but we know in five minutes one of us is going to have to get up. It was a constant who's turn is it? Who is going to get up? Who is going to eat dinner now? So we went through this and he was just sleeping. And I kept waking up all night and looking and checking. Is he breathing? What is going on in there? It was insane, I can't tell you how grateful I am for your program. Literally it changed everything for us and I recommended it to everybody I met and had contact with and you know I don't know what it is maybe it is just because it was a fit for me. But emotionally it was not as traumatic as some of the other things I had been trying to do. I am sure timing had a lot to do with it but the method seemed to be the gentlest on him. And on me too. So I am very grateful.
Dana: That is wonderful. And I think you're right. I think some babies, and I tend to look for it when I am consulting with parents, there are a few signs that indicate that a baby could be really ready for their own skills they just aren't sure what they are. It is wonderful when it is just that perfect timing where he just needs a little guidance or maybe a little push in the right direction with a supportive parent and then he just finds his own ways. It is almost as if he can say oh, thank you: That is what I was waiting for. And then what you mentioned that it was so life changing but as far as Henry is concerned what kind of things did you notice? What positive improvements after he started sleeping better?
Linda: Well I think that it was the same thing it is the same kind of improvements he had once his reflux started to improve he made another jump once his sleep improved. And that was just increased happiness and less fussiness and him he really I find is a baby that wants routine. I get a lot of critics within my family and friends with the need for routine and they think I am too scheduled. But he it is not even about timing it is just sort of a routine and he really likes it and the more I kind of introduced things around that he thrived. His development moved along a little quicker too. I think he was just so overtired that I didn't really get to start to see his true personality until he was caught up. And maybe I couldn't really enjoy him until I was caught up too. But you know I think that it is like anybody your mood improves and your patience improves and I think it allowed him to be able to be awake enough and happy enough to be able to start exploring a little bit. I mean he has been late on development in general because he was born early and his reflux kind of slowed him down. But things really started to pick up after that. And just in general he felt like such an easy baby. I get comments all the time still when I am out and about “oh he has this great demeanor and oh he is so easy going and so social and he goes to anybody and he is so adaptable.” I can't say that that is necessarily attributed just to his sleep. But when I started to notice these changes in him.
Dana: A lot of change going from all those months of him being in pain and crying and not knowing what to do and how to help to now people saying wow how wonderful he is when he is awake he is in such good spirits. I bet those first months you would have never thought you would have arrived at this place.
Linda: You have no idea how awful those seven or eight months were. I hate to say that because he is my baby and I would never change anything. But I know for next time it doesn't need to be that way. I was a first time mother and I didn't know what was normal. I didn't know in terms of even sleep what to expect. And people are very free at giving their advice and their input but you know when your baby is sick or every baby is different it is hard. It is hard to implement things and people are throwing all these ideas out at you and certain things just speak to you. And like I said when I was reading your online book there is something about your language and the way you explain things the only thing that really made sense to me and made me comfortable like okay I can do this. This is good for him. It wasn't like I was being selfish like okay I can do this and I am going to make my baby adapt to my schedule. It was like okay this is for him. And I thought that was the difference and the feeling of your writing for me.
Dana: That is wonderful. I know it is hard. I don't think there is a parent out there that would say oh yea I had no issues with my baby crying. He can cry for hours it doesn't bother me. I mean it is part of our innate parenting response to you know satisfy the needs of our babies and make sure that they are happy and comfortable. I think when you look at all the other stuff on the other side of the coin here you have this child that is barely sleeping, you are barely sleeping, it is affecting your state of mind, it is interfering in your marriage. I think when you add up all of those things and you look at it from the perspective of your family and what you need to do here for your family kind of all if you had any hesitations sort of all the negatives that weigh them and you are right. It is a gift. I look at all my own children and they are the greatest sleepers I know and it has been a life long gift for them. It is worth it.
Linda: I am about it too. Like about him and how he naps and goes to bed and people are like wow, how do you that? I just do it. His cousin, my niece who is three, they let her do whatever she wants. She goes to bed at 11 at night and she wakes up whenever and she doesn't nap and they say how cranky she is all the time but she doesn't really need sleep and of course I had my opinions about that. They think that you know Henry it just he is such a good baby. I am so lucky. I got that all the time about how lucky I am and granted I do I am very lucky but I think it is also parent involvement.
Dana: You did the work.
Linda: Yea.
Dana: You did the work. You laid the groundwork. Absolutely. I used to get that a lot too and you know yea I'm lucky. I have wonderful children. I also had the knowledge I also knew what I needed to do to make sure they were getting the sleep they needed which makes a huge difference.
Linda: And I knew it would make a difference long term. It is like I was talking to my husband and I said you know if he didn't have reflux even or even if he was an okay if we didn't do this now we were going to have to address it at some point. I mean you hear about toddlers with sleep issues we saw his cousin Ava and all her issues. We either bite the bullet now or torture our self a little bit longer and have to do it later but either way you know we are going to have to address the problem and it is better to do it now while we are losing minds. And it is just time. It is the right time.
Dana: Well I am so glad you made that choice. And so if you could just one last quick question, if you could go back to yourself you know before you started the program and you had your fears and your hesitations about starting something. If you could go back to you and give yourself some advice what would it be?
Linda: I would say that I need to be kinder to myself. I think I was really hard on myself. I still have some lingering sort of sorry some lingering guilt about not having figured out his reflux earlier and knowing he had been in pain all the time. And I was the mom and I should have known thing. I think that that carried through to everything and so I was just really hard on myself. I didn't want to let him cry at all and it is like I think in some ways there is not much I could have changed in terms of timing because it really was based around him being better. But I think if I were to go back and say take it easy on yourself and remember to take care of yourself too so you can take better care of him. I was essentially doing it on my own because my husband commuted and didn't get home until like 8:00 at night and I didn't live near any family or friends. We were in a new area. And so I just thought I had to be able to do everything. And I had to be able to do everything perfect. I think that I should have been a lot easier to myself and reached out for help more. I am not sure who, I didn't know a lot of people. But maybe found ways to get more help or hire somebody so I can get some sleep. Maybe I would have had the perspective if I were better rested to have done it a little bit earlier. Your judgment gets really screwed when you are sleep deprived. I think I would have made some better decisions or taken better care of myself if I could have stepped back a little bit. I was so in it I didn't take care of myself for sure.
Dana: I think it is hard as a parent there is this pressure that we are just supposed to master this and be great parents from the start. I mean I would hear it from a lot of people who would say I just should know this stuff. I should know how to figure this out. I should know how to handle these situations but really I mean if you have never had any experience with other children. Some people it is the first time they have held a baby when they have their own baby. I think there is a great deal of pressure that we have to be masters of parenting right from the day our children are born. You're right. We can't expect that of ourselves and there is nothing wrong with seeking help or picking up a book or calling somebody you know might have some advice and just trying to help each other out a little bit more than we do. We have to admit that hey I don't know how to do everything.
Linda: Right. That is a big reason for why we just moved you know we just moved back to my hometown where my parents are and my sister and my brother are and because we are realizing if we want number two we can't do it again by ourselves. I had a very challenging pregnancy and as you heard Henry had his issues in the beginning and to think about number two on top of that. We just realized we couldn't be isolated and needed family. It is just the way it is. And it is very hard for me. My personality isn’t to ask for help. So it is kind of a big step for us to do that.
Dana: And going forward now looking towards a number two down the road do you feel you are better prepared or do you feel like you are not as anxious about this sleep issue now that you know a few things?
Linda: Oh for sure. I will definitely be approaching everything different from the beginning. Granted every baby is different so who knows what is going to be thrown at me. But I will definitely be referencing your book and thinking about that from an earlier age because there are other things I could have done earlier. I think that in terms of sleep props especially. If I could have started it at three months and he wasn't sick and what not, gosh, life would have been so different. All that time when I think of that stretch of time where there was nothing else in my life. I will be able to enjoy infancy with my next baby much more. And I am looking forward to that. I am looking forward to having a little bit more under my belt and knowing a little bit more what to do.
Dana: I hear all the time from parents saying oh gosh, I wish I had known then what I know now.
Linda: Applies to anybody, right?
Dana: And even my own experience when I had my second baby and my third baby of course they were both very different people. But just knowing that I had the knowledge and I had the skill set I needed to make sure that they were getting rest when they needed rest it really did make the transition into a bigger family a lot easier even for the toddlers. I had my second, my son was excited when his brother came out of his bedroom and he would be out for a little while and go back to bed and be out for a little while and he would go back to bed. It was always really exciting and fun when he got to see his baby brother. But there was also that time when his brother went down for a nap and then he had mommy again all to himself so I find that it will make that transition easier for Henry as well. It won't be like mommy is attached to this baby all the time and he will have you all to himself for periods of time throughout the day.
Linda: I think it makes for happier kids. I imagine they will be able to get along better as siblings both being rested and you know I still get a little bit of a push back with Henry now being around the family and the cousins. It is like oh he doesn't need to do this, he doesn't need to have a nap or why are you so strict about him going to bed and that kind of thing. I'm like you know what when everybody comments on how happy and easy going and funny he is you know how lucky I am. And I said you know a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is rested. If I keep pushing everything around he is not going to be so much fun because he is going to be whiny, he is not going to be having fun. So I feel myself I am constantly kind of throwing it back at people. It is like today it is like well he is happy because he sleeps and he sleeps because he is happy. It is kind of a circular thing. That is why I am pretty adamant about it staying with my mom and dad or babysitters. He has to have a nap and these are the signs and this is what he craves and you will see that he they are always surprised. Oh, he napped for two hours. And I am like I know because that is what he does every day. He loves it. It makes me happy to have that and for me to knowing what to expect from him makes my life easier.
Dana: So if you had to say there was any downside or any cons to the program would that be it that you get a little bit of resistance from family or friends saying that are you so strict with the schedule?
Linda: I don't know if that is a downside necessarily to your program. I think that probably everybody has some sort of judgment. Not judgment but like input from people about how they should be doing things. I don't think that is specific to your program. I don't know what the downside would be. I think for me it is just that I wish I found it sooner to be honest with you.
Dana: Good to hear.
Linda: Yea I haven't had to look back at it. I haven't had to reference it. I think even through one comment I didn't want to make is with him healing and everything I think this is on the – oh this got easier too; when I talked to other people about what they go through with kids being sick whether it is colds or flus or teething and I feel great even during that. And I think it is his routine has a lot to do with it and him being rested and things not being all over the place. I really expected things to get out of control during those times. The thing I heard I don't know if it is out of jealousy or what but people who are hearing about how Henry was doing were like oh well you wait it doesn't last. It is not going to always be like this. Once he starts walking this is going to happy or once he starts teething he is going to do this or you know there just was always the negative things thrown out like what to expect. This was just around the corner and I was kind of bracing myself for that. Like okay, this is too good to be true it is not going to last kind of thing. There are small bumps in the road when you travel or do things but he is very resilient and I am always surprised by him. Even when I know he really doesn't feel good he is still so good about his sleep and his attitude. I attribute it to that. I am surprised that it is not more of a challenge as he changes because he is going through so many changes right now. But I was bracing myself for that sort of negative side to it and I really haven't experienced that personally.
Dana: Oh wonderful. And I think you are right. There are little road blocks here and there and they tend to occur around developmental milestones like learning to crawl or walk or teething I have heard teething can upset things. I think the good news in it all is that you know he is a great sleeper and you know that he can and so even if there are little push backs occasionally you just know that you know no I know you can do this and we have to be consistent and we have to keep the schedule the same and just push through it. And it blew over really quickly and instead of derailing all the hard work you just push through those little pitfalls and they pass.
Linda: I would say maybe the one emotional and it is not really a downfall but what I have noticed is that I do miss some of that cuddle time. There used to be a little bit more of him needing that sort of cuddling and rocking. At first I kind of missed that. It is like oh I just put him in and he goes to sleep. He doesn't need me anymore and – there were some swings of that but that passed when I realized I was getting time to myself.
Dana: I always say to people cuddling and having cuddle time is so much nicer and more enjoyable when it is a want to rather than have to. And you have to rock your child for half an hour for every nap and bedtime that is not quite as much fun as your toddler just crawling into your lap for a post nap cuddle. I mean it might not be as lengthy but they are definitely quality time to the cuddles again.
Linda: For sure. The thing that surprised me as well is that I kind of had expected a lot of work going into fixing his nap because before the program he would take like a 30 minute, 45 minute nap max. And it was just wearing me out because it took me an hour and a half to get him to sleep. And after he you know like I said it took two or three nights for him to be sleeping with your program I thought you know I am going to have to go through this whole thing during the day. But I didn't. It was immediately followed. It wasn't any extra work or extra time like I thought I would have to take the time to fix his night time schedule and then I would start again with his naps and go through it that way. And it just sort of found a place on his own. And I know that was lucky on my part. Then he just started sleeping two hours instead of 30 minutes. It was like the clouds parted, the sun came out, the music came on. I was like what is going on this is crazy. I feel very lucky.
Dana: You deserved it after those first seven months.
Linda: I feel like I kind of did yea.
Dana: So right now what is your family – your family's favorite fun activity to do together?
Linda: I think for Henry it is being outside, going to the park or being in the yard. He is very interested in nature and touching everything and sort of chasing a lot of things unfortunately. He is kind of an outdoors kid. He loves books too but he is really fascinated by trees and grass and just kind of he just learned to walk a few weeks ago so he is a little bit late on all of that. So he is testing out all of these new skills and so he likes to run around outside and the good weather that is how we are taking advantage of that right now.
Dana: Sounds good. Well okay, Linda. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us.
